FFS/ LiveScope/ Activetarget Yes, No, Maybe So?

[KillinTime]

I see a lot of anglers are using it. I also see the controversy it is causing in the tournament world. Some even blaming low tournament signups and falling sport interest on it.

I myself have never used it. My ignorant opinion from the outside looking in, would be negative. These are my thought; Angler is always looking down. Missing out on full enjoyment of being on the water and miss the wonders of nature. Missing the shock and surprise of the strike, since you know it's coming. If you want to stare at a screen while fishing, just play fishing video games (it's always wide open). Back-seater is forced into even more disadvantages. Neck starts to hurt from always staring at the deck of the boat. Fish have nowhere to hide; even deep or stained water spawning fish.
Technology has been changed the sport since the beginning, but maybe this is the step that has gone too far? Buy heck, I think AI is going at too fast of an advancement

Again, I am not saying it's a bad thing, as I don't have any experience with them. So don't take offense to my comments above.

With the being said, what are you thoughts, experiences?
Cost vs rewards?
Would you purchase one again?
Are you just absolutely slaying them with one?
Are you completely dependent on it now?
Can you go back to the days of fishing without one?

Let me know you thoughts?

[JWall]

Love your list and agree 100% as of today. But did just hear a persuasive take from an angler who may or may not even fish tourneys. He said its a matter of his time…if he is taking any amount of time to be on the water, he wants to fish where the fish are. It has me thinking but I doubt I will go there.

[Early release]

I have Panoptix on my current kayak. I mostly don't use it, and don't really like it. When have I used it? I was using it at El Cap to see if there were any fish anywhere one day when I couldn't catch anything. Spoiler alert, they were there, hugging the bottom. It's fun to set it up and cast past some fish, bring your lure into them and watch them slowly disperse from your lure too. I have used it at Barrett to see how the busters move, learn their ways and then I stopped using it. Where else would I use it? I'd use it at a lake I don't know to set myself up for some success and then I stop using it. I'm not competing with anyone to catch fish, I'm out on a lake, hopefully with friends and having a great time talking about things and either catching or not catching fish. I don't want to spend that time staring at a screen. It works, it works great, it's just not my favorite. I personally love shore banging and catching fish where I'd like them to be. I don't know that I always need to be the most efficient I can be.

I'm 50/50 on whether or not I will add Panoptix to my new kayak. It depends on how many trips I make to new places this summer.

[Dannicus]

As we spoke about out on the water at El Cap brother, I briefly considered adding it to my float tube. Briefly being the key word in that sentence. I have no problem with guys using it, but like you, I've watched them spend hours staring at their screens. Speaking for myself, that's the polar opposite of why I love to fish.

This week at Murray and El Capitan I saw coyotes, bald eagles, osprey, deer, and even a raccoon exploring the edge of the tules no more than 20 feet from my tube.

Being part of the environment is the principal reason I left my bass boat behind years ago. In a quiet float tube my experiences transcend just catching fish. Again I have no issue at all with anyone's choices, but I have certainly found my happy place in my float tube. With that said, in my old age I do appreciate my Bixpy motor, and cheap Garmin Striker 4 fish finder so I am in no sense and absolute purist haha.

I use the Garmin primarily for depth, structure identification and water temp., and my arthritic knees really appreciate the motor, especially when the wind makes its inevitable appearance.

[Surferjohn]

Its a tool just like spotlock. Does it make you a better fisherman? It helps but not make you catch fish. If anything it tells you have many fish won't bite. Like anything else you must learn it. It does not do well in shallow water. The jig and minnow thing is a kick but frustrating at the same time. We haven't had to throw a worm in a month all reaction right now for us.
If you want to cripple the tournament angler take away spotlock too.

[Oh Da Shiz]

I'll chime in on this.....

As someone who has limited time fishing on the water, I use it to eliminate "dead" water. I'm at the point where I need to maximize my time that I do have on the water. You still need to catch them though when you see them and that can be a challenge in itself.

If you can be patient there's some deals to be had on FFS equipment. You'll just have to make sure your current electronics are compatible otherwise it can get costly having to upgrade electronics.

[DarkShadow]

Others have mentioned that it is simply yet another tool to your arsenal. I remember the same controversy when Alabama rigs came out.

From experience, it definitely helps when the shallow bite isn't happening. Many have this false sense that you see the fish and you cast to the fish and then you catch the fish, when it's not that easy.

What FFS helps with, is seeing the fish's personality. When we first started using it, we would spend hours trying to get fish who were not going to bite, to bite. We continually shot ourselves in the foot. Or, mistaking a carp school for bass. Or a school of bluegill for shad. But once we realized what actions we would be looking for, it helped us not eliminate water, but eliminate fish that weren't going to bite. Instead of sitting there, trying to force feed them, we pull up the trolling motor and we're gone. Not wasting time like before.

Now, as a back seater? If you aren't great friends with your boater, you're going to be relegated to the back, casting into the abyss. Hence why the co-anglers participation dropping in major tournaments.

Oh, and if you decide to get FFS, make sure you also get "Live Foot" of sorts, so that you can separate the transducer from your trolling motor so that you can run each independently. That way you can be having your trolling motor on spot lock and then your FFS scanning around. You don't have to point your trolling motor in the direction you want to scan, so that's another thousand dollar investment.

[VinnyBass]

If you fish basic bass fishing areas like the shoreline, or shoreline stick-ups, tulles or rocky areas along the shore, there is no point
in spending money for FFS. If it looks bassy, then throw your lure over to it is what I do. To find high spots or structure in deeper
water away from the shoreline, I have used regular finders for decades and they work. If I wanted to find shad schools or bass
near them you can also find them with regular finders(use nothing but Lowrance). When I first got FFS, I hardly ever turned it on
and just used the regular sonar settings. I thought that maybe I made a mistake getting it. I finally started using it and found that
I mostly use it for finding shad in deeper waters. It does give you a better illustration of the shad and fish that can be around the
shad balls than a regular sonar. With a regular sonar when you see lines going though the shad, it means the bass are eating but
still it does not guarantee the bass will bite. For me the FFS makes things a little bit sharper and gives you a better sense of direction
to make your cast. I do not use it for fishing shallow or working shorelines. The problem is that it often keeps me in the middle of
the lake searching rather than fishing the shoreline or shallow water which means I totally missed the spawn at murray (even though I
don't sight fish) by staying out in deep water and not working the shallower water.
So FFS can be a blessing at times and a curse...ha ha. I do not use it to it fullest extent, but mostly just like using it in deeper
water(didn't I say that about 10 times...ha ha). It is fun, but if I did not have it, I would be fine and probably be catching more bass fishing all the areas along the shorelines and points that look bassy.

[MaxZmus]

If I could afford it I would definitely have it. I don’t get to fish often so on the chance that I do get to go I want it to be as productive as possible. I love sight fishing and seeing how the fish react to my bait and presentation. As far as the tournament side goes. I think if you’re competing for a paycheck and the rules allow it, then why not? Why hate on the anglers that took the time to learn it and dominate the rest of the field? Fishing is about being able to adapt to different situations. The old timers didn’t adapt and that’s why they got left behind and most of them are now retiring from the sport.

[Dfishin]

I have FFS on my boat and i love it. Even though I have the old 32 version and only 9" screen. Hope to upgrade some day. It opens up a whole new adventure in fishing. When I first got it I did the bait balls and bass thing. Then I started using it to find structure, then fish on the structure, then fish that are willing to bite. You would be really surprised what is going on just under the surface that you cannot see with anything else. It is a double edge sword, you get to see how many fish see your bait and don't commit, but get to watch bites and fights. I have sat there and just watched bass crush schools of bait it's crazy. I think I do catch more fish with it as I'm not fishing dead water that looks killer on the surface. Not keep fishing for fish that ignore me (this is a work in progress). I'm not a run and gun guy so don't even try to take my spot lock away.
I do not have it on my tube and have been doing okay I. Do I need it no. Do I want it yes!

[Moose]

For me, the fun in bass fishing, or fishing in general, is figuring out the bite. Some days I can do it, some days the bass win. To me, that is the best part of fishing. Trying to figure out the puzzle each time on the water.

While I understand FFS is viewed by many as just another tool. To me it crosses the line from skill to having too much of an advantage, especially at the highest levels of competition. I can 100% understand a weekend angler using it to put fish in the boat to make their trip more enjoyable, but to me when you get into tournament fishing, it shouldn’t be about who has access to the latest toys and the best electronics.

I refuse to watch any tournament that is an FFS tournament. It’s boring as hell to watch. I want to see guys flippin’, throwing top water, pitching a jig, cranking along a bank. That, to me is fun to watch. Seeing a guy stand over a screen all day is boring as hell.

I don’t have it and I don’t think I ever will. I just enjoy the chase too much. I think it takes too much of the unknown out of the pursuit of bass. I do not claim in any way to be anywhere close to being a professional fisherman, but I have spent many years trying to hone my skills to the point that I feel like every time I go on the water, I will catch at least some fish.

Bottom line is, you do you. If you like it, and can afford it, good for you. If, like me you don’t like it, then fish without it like I do and live and die with the results.

[JWall]

For me, the fun in bass fishing, or fishing in general, is figuring out the bite. Some days I can do it, some days the bass win. To me, that is the best part of fishing. Trying to figure out the puzzle each time on the water.

While I understand FFS is viewed by many as just another tool. To me it crosses the line from skill to having too much of an advantage, especially at the highest levels of competition. I can 100% understand a weekend angler using it to put fish in the boat to make their trip more enjoyable, but to me when you get into tournament fishing, it shouldn’t be about who has access to the latest toys and the best electronics.

I refuse to watch any tournament that is an FFS tournament. It’s boring as hell to watch. I want to see guys flippin’, throwing top water, pitching a jig, cranking along a bank. That, to me is fun to watch. Seeing a guy stand over a screen all day is boring as hell.

I don’t have it and I don’t think I ever will. I just enjoy the chase too much. I think it takes too much of the unknown out of the pursuit of bass. I do not claim in any way to be anywhere close to being a professional fisherman, but I have spent many years trying to hone my skills to the point that I feel like every time I go on the water, I will catch at least some fish.

Bottom line is, you do you. If you like it, and can afford it, good for you. If, like me you don’t like it, then fish without it like I do and live and die with the results.

My thoughts exactly!!

[tomnilll]

I would use it for sure if I could figure out how to set it up from the shore...

[VinnyBass]

I would use it for sure if I could figure out how to set it up from the shore...

Probably in the future, there will be something.

[DarkShadow]

I use old school forward facing sonar.

[KillinTime]

Thanks for all the reply! Wow!! You guys have brought up somethings that I would have never thought of. I am going to go through and read your responses again, to really understand everyone's own point of views. Some of these response have given me another perception to what I thought it was all about? I appreciate your replies!

[Mcfish]

I just don't want to hear anymore, " just because you can see them, doesn't mean they'll bite"...yes, but it gives you a 99% advantage over the guy throwing to dead water! I've fished next to people with FFS in deep water and it was definitely an advantage for them...and myself, just knowing there were fish currently under me! Is it right or wrong, don't know....I'd rather just rely on what I've learned in the last 65 years of fishing!

[DarkShadow]

I just don't want to hear anymore, " just because you can see them, doesn't mean they'll bite"...yes, but it gives you a 99% advantage over the guy throwing to dead water! I've fished next to people with FFS in deep water and it was definitely an advantage for them...and myself, just knowing there were fish currently under me! Is it right or wrong, don't know....I'd rather just rely on what I've learned in the last 65 years of fishing!

Of course, much like when sonar first came around. You had the Elders talking about how 2D sonar was cheating. You knew where the bottom was, you knew were bait was, you knew where structure was, and you got excited when you saw the squiggly marks.

Part of the love I have for fishing is the fact that I'm always learning. If I said that I would rather rely on what I've learned in the past, and no longer was interested in learning, my next step would to sell all my gear.

Whether people view it as a tool, or a crutch, is up to them. All I know is that it's definitely a game changer. And when I come to think of it, I've caught only about 10% of the fish I've seen on FFS. That gives you a good indicator that it's not a video game.

[Moose]

Part of the love I have for fishing is the fact that I'm always learning. If I said that I would rather rely on what I've learned in the past, and no longer was interested in learning, my next step would to sell all my gear.

That's the exact part that I love about fishing, always learning, not that its right or wrong either way but for me, I love putting the puzzle together based off what I have learned from past trips, what the weather is doing, water temp, wind etc. Those are pieces to the puzzle you have to put together on your own. I will agree that a graph of any kind is a tool and an advantage over anyone who is fishing without one. I see it a little differently though. With a traditional 2D or even 3D/Down/Sidescan unit, you are looking at the bottom. In GENERAL, not always, you are looking for spots, structure, drop offs etc. where fish SHOULD be. Yes sometimes you will actually see fish but typically you narrow down an area and then you fish it. Even if you do see a school of fish sitting on a spot, you are still having to "blind" cast and try to figure out that last piece of the puzzle as to actually getting that fish to bite. You don't get to watch how a fish reacts to a bait. You don't get to see if the fish are active or in a negative mood. You dont KNOW that a fish is following your bait. Thats all stuff you have to figure that out on your own based on what you have learned over the years. I take a lot of pride in the knowledge I have gained over decades of time on the water, trial and error, learning to trust your instinct and making decisions based off of them.

With FFS, to me at least, you're simply scoping until you see a target and them throwing to it. Where is the instinct in that? FFS gives an angler too many pieces of the puzzle already pieced together. You know where the fish is, what depth it’s at, how far from your boat it is, if its active or simply suspended. It tells you if the fish is interested in your bait and what action does or doesnt work because you are watching it in real time. That is probably the biggest issue to me, the real time aspect of it. Even with the latest and most detailed graphs, you are still only getting a small image of a very large lake bottom. You’re not looking through a window essentially, at the bottom of the lake.

Another aspect of FFS I don’t care for is I have seen it shut down breaking fish at El Cap on more than one occasion. In the past guys would get into the area where breakers would show up and everyone would just kind of float around until the fish came up. On at least two occasions fish were up and breaking but then you get a few boats with guys banging around with their forward facing sonar, turning their trolling motors back and forth scoping, and on and off their trolling motors creating lots of noise that puts the fish down. You also have these same guys so focused on looking at their screens they don’t realize if they are encroaching on another fishermen because their focus is narrowed down the the screen.

I know I sound like “Get off my lawn” guy but with all that being said, these are only my opinions and feelings regarding it. If you can afford it and it makes your trips more enjoyable, then go get em! I just prefer a different way of doing things and I don’t want to see this technology at the highest levels of the sport. I want to watch fishing, not watch someone watching fish!