First day out and over 70 fish in 4 hours

[Gotfish?]

Enough of the talk about how to catch fish. Let's list the factors of how a lure catches fishermen:

1. Lots of sparkle and mirror like finishes. Gold, silver and chrome always work too. Blades that spin around and around.
2. Flashing lights, sounds and secret vibrations.
3. New and improved. Whether it be tungsten weighted, special type hooks, super duper scent, microchip controlled, etc.
4. Action, action and more action. Compared to the subtle movement of a minnow or crayfish feeding in the water, it should be a regular circus of movement. Jump up and down, wiggle the tail, spray water out the mouth, dart back and forth, wobble like crazy, make a stream of air bubbles, etc.
5. Despite a completely unnatural movement, emphasize how important it is to exactly match the appearance of forage. Photographic finishes on the lure.
6. Lots of advertising and endorsements by celebrity fishermen. If Roland Martin says the Helicopter Lure worked for him, it has to work for me.
7. Use the term "big bass" in the description. No one wants a little bass lure.

Not saying the above can't catch fish, just that this is how to catch fishermen. Did I miss anything?

[camobass]

Two of the greatest fisherman off all time on one thread giving us all the dope and expert opinion without even anyone asking for it!!!! My head is about to explode with joy and gratitude. Gee golly! Everyone better be taking notes. These guys are the real deal. I mean senko Sam is self published in forums all around the globe telling countless people how they are doing it all wrong. Got fish is our site top expert in knowing everything there is to know. Two guys on there way to the fishing hall of fame. Stand down bendopolo, we are NOT worthy to even drop two cents to these guy’s wisdom.

[senkosam]

"senko Sam is self published in forums all around the globe telling countless people how they are doing it all wrong. Got fish is our site top expert in knowing everything there is to know."

Thanks for the compliment Camo, but my style of fishing finesse lures that I design is no way on par with those that fish deep waters and wide rivers. Good anglers dial in presentations that find fish pattern locations. Granted, I could keep up with many fishing from the back of their boat after observing the way they caught fish. That alone would teach me a great deal and that is key to becoming a better more versatile angler. Learn by observing, whether fishing alone or with someone else.

When reading fishing articles or watching pro anglers on TV, know that a lot might not pertain to where you fish and what's more, to sell stuff you may never catch fish using. If I were in their position, I would never hawk products to the many that just want to improve and become more versatile. Catching fish new ways on never-before-tried lures is a blast!
Catching fish using live bait is fine (I used it for ice fishing for years), but unlike float fishing, I cover far more water while observing my sonar frequently.

The best of luck Camo. I'll bet you know things I don't.

[senkosam]

duplicate post deleted

[Gotfish?]

I don't always agree with Senko Sam but I like his positive approach. Much more pleasant than an angry, resentful sourpuss style.

[camobass]

Yup, Gotfish just like your approach is top notch -the best ever! So humble, so polite. Never an ounce of arrogance. Outstanding human beings. Such an inspiration to the whole community. Living legends!!!! Whether it being fishing or political related, I’ve learned sooo much from you both. You both have truly changed my life. I’ll never fish the same.

[senkosam]

Today was an example of a 77 y.o. angler learning new tricks.
First off I gave him a small tackle box with some of my mods. Separated by a foam spacer were jig heads that matched the lures and depths we would be fishing. (It was nice to talk to a fellow vet who also served during the Vietnam War vs the young'n I fished with last time out that was very self-absorbed.)

The reason he took me up on my invitation was his amazement at hearing we caught close to 180 fish on the weekend. His gear was totally wrong: wrong action rod, spinning reels with to low a gear ration and too small a diameter; mono that had a lot of memory, and the wrong lures for finesse fishing.

It started out badly because the trolling motor prop barely turned. So I had to row in the hot sun having forgotten liquids in a row boat with a trolling motor that stopped working due to a dead battery. So after having rowed against the wind, we got to the areas the young'n and I caught so many fish. Soon we found small schools of fish and we caught doubles on my lures. Even the depth range we caught fish surprised me: 1.5' - 5', sometimes near emerging pads, sometimes in open water.

From 11 am - 2:30pm we clicked-counted 87 fish: crappie, sunnies, perch (y and w), some big pickerel and a few small bass.
Imagine if we had gotten out much earlier! Easily 200 fish. He did very well and I'm sure he was impressed by the lure designs he caught fish with.

Just goes to show you: You're never to old to learn.

[KillinTime]

Those pic don't look like San Diego lakes? Where are you fishing?

[senkosam]

Update:
Yesterday my partner and I caught over 145 fish using small finesse lures that included bass (largest was 2.5 lb, 4 pickerel (largest 2 3/4' long), many crappie, yellow and white perch and sunfish. Before we launched the boat, I made a few suggestions to my 78 y.o. partner's tackle.
1. switch to braid from mono that came off in coils (memory) (I brought along a spool of Hercules 8 lb test)
2. take 3 reels with larger diameter spool and gear ratios
3. put those reels on light action rods at least 5.5' long if not 6' for easier casting and better hook sets when using small light lures

While fishing I suggested various retrieves based on different lure actions and I rigged many different lures for him to cast. He caught fish on all of them. We fished from 12pm - 4:30pm and caught 145 fish, not including the ones that got free.

Locations were varied but all were in 5' or less over flats and small humps. Anchoring and fan casting once fish were caught was often because schools of panfish hit consecutive cast like crazy. We are of one mind:
catch what you can with what you have confidence in.
Granted, there were many lures I could have targeted bass, including surface lures and spinnerbaits on that cloudy day. But it's always a surprise when fish hit many times on the same retrieve or when I lift the rod after doing something unrelated to fishing and a fish takes the lure.

He couldn't believe how well we did and I invited him to fish another water I know as far as patterns (like yesterday's shallow water pattern unrelated to pads). But as I've always believed: your sonar and anchor are two of the most important tools along with your ultimate fish finder: your lure. Fan casting once fish are found many times produces and the boat should not be moved until a large area around the boat is tested.

I wouldn't know the first thing about fishing large Sandiego lakes, but could probably do okay on smaller water given a few months. : )

[Gotfish?]

Update:
Yesterday my partner and I caught over 145 fish using small finesse lures that included bass (largest was 2.5 lb, 4 pickerel (largest 2 3/4' long), many crappie, yellow and white perch and sunfish. Before we launched the boat, I made a few suggestions to my 78 y.o. partner's tackle.
1. switch to braid from mono that came off in coils (memory) (I brought along a spool of Hercules 8 lb test)
2. take 3 reels with larger diameter spool and gear ratios
3. put those reels on light action rods at least 5.5' long if not 6' for easier casting and better hook sets when using small light lures

While fishing I suggested various retrieves based on different lure actions and I rigged many different lures for him to cast. He caught fish on all of them. We fished from 12pm - 4:30pm and caught 145 fish, not including the ones that got free.

Locations were varied but all were in 5' or less over flats and small humps. Anchoring and fan casting once fish were caught was often because schools of panfish hit consecutive cast like crazy. We are of one mind:
catch what you can with what you have confidence in.
Granted, there were many lures I could have targeted bass, including surface lures and spinnerbaits on that cloudy day. But it's always a surprise when fish hit many times on the same retrieve or when I lift the rod after doing something unrelated to fishing and a fish takes the lure.

He couldn't believe how well we did and I invited him to fish another water I know as far as patterns (like yesterday's shallow water pattern unrelated to pads). But as I've always believed: your sonar and anchor are two of the most important tools along with your ultimate fish finder: your lure. Fan casting once fish are found many times produces and the boat should not be moved until a large area around the boat is tested.

I wouldn't know the first thing about fishing large Sandiego lakes, but could probably do okay on smaller water given a few months. : )

Never leave fish to find fish, old saying. And while I like light (6 lb usually) mono on baitcasting reels, my spinning reels generally have braid, Nanofil or Gliss. And fishing from a float tube, I like 7-7.5' rods for longer casts.

I see lots of people who have nice kayaks, float tubes and even boats who don't have a sonar. I find it super useful to locate structure that holds fish. And as you noted, a pattern (e.g. 5' over flats) is often found for a day that can be repeated over and over with the sonar. It's a misnomer to call it a fish finder as it mostly is used to find structure, not fish (although it sometimes does that too). "Structure finder" would not be as good for sales though. It takes time to learn how to best use it but is very useful once you do learn.

There is a lot to be said for fishing with someone who catches a lot of fish and enjoys showing others how to do the same (kudos to you for being that type of person). The quickest way to get better at almost anything is to be with people better than yourself. Beginner fishermen visiting the forum and want to get better should take note. Be skeptical of the ones who say they like fishing even when they don't catch anything.

[senkosam]

My new friend has caught other large species in other waters far from here, but hadn't used many small soft plastics other than Mr Twister curl tail. I don't remember the lure or type bait he used.

[Just_Bass]

From all of your super effective creation, I’d bet you I can catch plenty of fish with some simple Walmart stuff like baby shad, CB slider and tube.
Baby shad for all around
Tube for when fish not so aggressive or doesn’t want a lot of movement (spawning time)
CB slider when fish feeding frenzy (late night summer)
Quote
So when hearing any of the 'facts' stated in forums, in the media or from a buddy, take them with a grain of salt and instead ask specific questions about lure characteristics and presentations that did well under certain conditions. Comparing notes - not fallacies - is what catches fish. I got photographic proof - what do you - the so-called expert - got?

Too bad I don’t take pics or even post of what I catch anymore.
Only one pic of 2024 and I caught plenty of this, one that might even beat my PB at 2.53lb

[camobass]

From all of your super effective creation, I’d bet you I can catch plenty of fish with some simple Walmart stuff like baby shad, CB slider and tube.
Baby shad for all around
Tube for when fish not so aggressive or doesn’t want a lot of movement (spawning time)
CB slider when fish feeding frenzy (late night summer)
Quote
So when hearing any of the 'facts' stated in forums, in the media or from a buddy, take them with a grain of salt and instead ask specific questions about lure characteristics and presentations that did well under certain conditions. Comparing notes - not fallacies - is what catches fish. I got photographic proof - what do you - the so-called expert - got?

Too bad I don’t take pics or even post of what I catch anymore.
Only one pic of 2024 and I caught plenty of this, one that might even beat my PB at 2.53lb

You have plenty of proof. Beautiful fish over the years.

[Just_Bass]

The problem is, he is so proud of his creation and forgot the most important thing for panfish, LOCATION LOCATION AND LOCATION. His home lake might be a lot easier to find fish than our high pressure SoCal lake. One of the guy here always show his ability to find big crappie and bluegill on his boat, but he never said it is his godsends alone.
Seriously once you find them crappie, lure or color is not very important at all. It would be more helpful talking about action or movement or how you retrieve the lure.
I can show off my fish every day if I want to but WHY? I fish private lake where I know not a lot of ppl can fish here. Yes sometimes I want to show off the one I proud of but just that not saying I’m better than anyone else just lucky to be able to fish here.

[senkosam]

"From all of your super effective creation, I’d bet you I can catch plenty of fish with some simple Walmart stuff like baby shad, CB slider and tube."

No doubt I could (and have) caught fish on many lures sold, but not as many on many lures sold. It's not about the source of the lure but about specific lure actions that can always be counted on. Even with crankbaits of a similar body shape and bill type, variations in action make or break a crankbait's success.
Ex. A Rapala Risto Rap blows away the competition as compared to similar lures in its category. Its action is unique at the slowest speed. My creations are all about action at the slowest retrieve speed. Fish senses are always cued to an object's action/vibration/visual cue whether that of an insect on the surface or a suspended baitfish. Both are subtle in action - actions unique to both that are in a fish's sense-detection catalog.

All the crap we read or hear about what lures supposedly represent to fish ignores why lures do well or do well only when school fish are attacking everything. Fish recognize nothing when it comes to lures. A lure provokes an attack or doesn't and those that have the most potential to provoke an attack move a certain way even under a float.

In my catalog of lure actions I value and can duplicate (some of which are sold under different names), are these examples:
thin spike-tail
claw tail
shad (swimbait ) tail
forked tail fin
grub body with curl tail removed
mini-stick shape
spike-tails on both sides of a grub body wacky rigged (looks like whiskers on a fish when lip hooked)
attached grub bodies wacky rigged or rigged from either end
cone shape (taper from front to tail)

You may not be able to visualize each action/shape unless you watch it in the water. That action/ shape accounts for each lure's success in catching predator fish galore!

Body texture is another I believe helps get a fish's attention and hold it long enough to p.o. a fish to attack. I like to use a 1" segment of a Fry Fry stick with various tails attached. i.e. The textured body reflects light differently from smooth bodies.

Believe the various reason(s) lures catch fish if it helps you predict which lures to cast and work a certain way. In my world, confidence in a lure's shape, action and size - in combination - has the most potential of getting fish to attack and is the ultimate fish-finder and provoker of the least active of fish. Many lure designers in the past century discovered just that and made millions on lures they knew were unnatural in shape and action. Yet they were advertised as shad, leeches, various bugs and other prey imitations. Names given to lures mean nothing to fish; the visual they produce is everything! The elderly gentleman I recently fished with is convinced of all of the above after decades of buying so many lures for the wrong reasons.

Barnum said it best.....

[Just_Bass]

“ No doubt I could (and have) caught fish on many lures sold, but not as many on many lures sold. It's not about the source of the lure but about specific lure actions that can always be counted on. Even with crankbaits of a similar body shape and bill type, variations in action make or break a crankbait's success.
Believe the various reason(s) lures catch fish if it helps you predict which lures to cast and work a certain way. In my world, confidence in a lure's shape, action and size - in combination - has the most potential of getting fish to attack and is the ultimate fish-finder and provoker of the least active of fish. Many lure designers in the past century discovered just that and made millions on lures they knew were unnatural in shape and action. Yet they were advertised as shad, leeches, various bugs and other prey imitations. Names given to lures mean nothing to fish; the visual they produce is everything! The elderly gentleman I recently fished with is convinced of all of the above after decades of buying so many lures for the wrong reasons.”

You don’t get it don’t you? It is not ALL about lures size or shape but it is about location, depth and mood of the fish you after. If you explain of how and where you find those fish, and how you fish them bobbers, slow retrieve, jigging, jerking along the bottom or even plain drifting would be more beneficial to those wanna learn how to find them, instead you bombard the post of your own and especially others with your ridiculous lures and some tiny fish. Doesn’t matter how magical your creation is, if you drop where is no fish, you’d got no bite.
You could be one of the good contributor for this small, local forum if you know how to get off your ego (believe me Californian is the most ego compare to other regions). If you come in with just your happy day of catching 70 crappies in 4 hours, we would be happy for you not start basting of how good you or your lures are. Some might even want to know your location so they can have fun and some good meals. A lot of ppl know you are not local and a lot easier to find them crappies than here in limited SoCal lakes but over population.
Just for example, I should baby shad type over anything else like tube, curly tail, paddle tail for distance. I too fish most of the time 1/32oz jig and to be able to get distance from shore, baby shad type is the best. I should to use specific lure instead of increasing weight so I can stay in strike zone longer. If I vertical jigging I would increase weight but lure with lots of tentacles to slow down the weight but better seeing line jump.

[camobass]

“ No doubt I could (and have) caught fish on many lures sold, but not as many on many lures sold. It's not about the source of the lure but about specific lure actions that can always be counted on. Even with crankbaits of a similar body shape and bill type, variations in action make or break a crankbait's success.
Believe the various reason(s) lures catch fish if it helps you predict which lures to cast and work a certain way. In my world, confidence in a lure's shape, action and size - in combination - has the most potential of getting fish to attack and is the ultimate fish-finder and provoker of the least active of fish. Many lure designers in the past century discovered just that and made millions on lures they knew were unnatural in shape and action. Yet they were advertised as shad, leeches, various bugs and other prey imitations. Names given to lures mean nothing to fish; the visual they produce is everything! The elderly gentleman I recently fished with is convinced of all of the above after decades of buying so many lures for the wrong reasons.”

You don’t get it don’t you? It is not ALL about lures size or shape but it is about location, depth and mood of the fish you after. If you explain of how and where you find those fish, and how you fish them bobbers, slow retrieve, jigging, jerking along the bottom or even plain drifting would be more beneficial to those wanna learn how to find them, instead you bombard the post of your own and especially others with your ridiculous lures and some tiny fish. Doesn’t matter how magical your creation is, if you drop where is no fish, you’d got no bite.
You could be one of the good distributors for this small, local forum if you know how to get off your ego (believe me Californian is the most ego compare to other regions). If you come in with just your happy day of catching 70 crappies in 4 hours, we would be happy for you not start basting of how good you or your lures are. Some might even want to know your location so they can have fun and some good meals. A lot of ppl know you are not local and a lot easier to find them crappies than here in limited SoCal lakes but over population.
Just for example, I should baby shad type over anything else like tube, curly tail, paddle tail for distance. I too fish most of the time 1/32oz jig and to be able to get distance from shore, baby shad type is the best. I should to use specific lure instead of increasing weight so I can stay in strike zone longer. If I vertical jigging I would increase weight but lure with lots of tentacles to slow down the weight but better seeing line jump.

Im glad I’m not the only one who sees it. Just be careful @Just_Bass he nearly got me kicked off the old forum even after it was on cruise control for saying similar stuff. Senkosam is a living legend! I hope one day I can be as good as a fisherman as he is and be on countless forums around the world letting everyone know that they are doing it all wrong!

[Gotfish?]

If only Senkosam was local then we could have all of you on the water in a contest to see who the real expert is.

[Just_Bass]

If only Senkosam was local then we could have all of you on the water in a contest to see who the real expert is.

If he is local I would take him with me in a heartbeat. I want to learn from the best, No pun intended regarding his creation. I used to think I’m good, once I fish with @ bassmeister I felt like I just a guy who know next to nothing.

[senkosam]

Camo, I didn't know how to take your comments, but now I do. Keep up the good work and I will ignore your comments from now on.
I will never claim that I'm a better angler than most. My posts are about b.s. vs the truth when it comes to the reasons given why we should buy certain lures and colors. I've made lures for over 20 years starting with bass jigs and spinnerbaits. That alone was life changer because I found I could vary skirt colors, blade shapes, sizes and number of blades and still catch bass. Short arm vs long arm spinnerbaits came next. Then, pouring and modifying soft plastics allowed me to catch fish on many sizes, shapes and colors regardless of the nonsense claims of pro anglers paid to claim otherwise. A hand-poured swimbait 6" long in bright chartreuse or a 1 3/4" hybrid caught fish everywhere I fished. Experimenting with colors, shapes and sizes - in combination - confirmed how many variations of each are capable of, with lure action leading the way.

Of course fish location is #1, but lure choice shares in importance. Even if fish are seen on sonar, the ultimate fish locator is the lure used and how it is worked. Fish do not have to be active to be provoked to strike lures. For example, much of the time bass are minding their own business under pads until a surface lure interrupts their seance. BAM! - it strikes for no reason whatsoever.

Insults prove one thing: those who levy them usually have little to offer and are incapable of addressing key elements of my posts much less make suggestions based on many personal experiences. If you, Camo, were almost kicked off a forum, it was you, not me, that put you in that position. "Greatest angler" sarcasms aside, I have learned by fishing with anglers that specialize in certain presentations using certain lures. You can't help but learn after years of fishing in different fishing clubs where the luck-of-the-draw forces you to fish with different anglers on 9 or more different waters annually.

I don't know if I could do well on Calif. lakes, having fished in Mexico and Texas and done well in both. The Hudson R. is a big question mark fishing for strippers because I don't fish for them, whereas fishing tidal creeks emptying into the Hudson is a whole different ball game! Versatility is what you make it - not just what I recommend to become more versatile. I am more versatile than many. What about you Camo and Just Bass? Name all the conditions and locations you do well and specifics when it comes to lure choices.... or is it a secret?

One last thing - I will repeat the reason for the post just in case either of you are dyslexic. The topic I started is about appreciating lure action and recognizing those lures that demonstrate the best actions in that lure category. Observing the unique motions of good lures separates the crap from the fish-catchers regardless of media b.s., which much of the time is repeated by many on forums.